View Full Version : Modified Classics To Be Banned?

18-11-2005, 05:20 PM
From Classic Ford Magazine (December 2005) - But applicable to all classics and worth reading if you have modified cars.

As we revealed last month, restored cars that have been put together using parts from a number of donor vehicles could be forced to run Q-plates, but now other problems with the DVLA's consultation document on vehicle inspections have emerged - and they could have grim repercussions for classic modifiers.
The problem involves the DVLA's measure to control what it calls 'radically altered vehicles - modified cars to you and us. As part of the recommedations for the inspection of RAV's, it's considering whether all RAV's will need inspection before being allowed on the roads. It could mean that cars with only a small amount of modification may be outlawed.
There is a fear that the DVLA will use the new computerised MoT system to get testers to make a note of what modifications a car has had and use that information to work out whether a car needs Single Vehicle Approval.
SVA is an expensive process aimed at mass-produced cars rather than modified classics. It tests cars to modern standards for safety and lighting requirements and emissions - all of which a 30-year-old design would struggle to pass. We feel that a super-MoT for modified classics where modifications are checked for safety would be a much better solution - and would address DVLA's safety fears.
"This could have a massive impact on the modified cars scene," said one specialist builder who wanted to remain anonymous. "It could make modifying your car much more difficult or even illegal in the worse case scenario. It's hard to say how far the new regulations could go, but it could affect a huge number of classic car owners.
"As well as this it could have a massive impact on the hundreds of specialists that earn a living working on performance cars as well as the thousands of people who work for the suppliers and manufacturers".
The DVLA is targetting vehicles that have been 'radically altered from its original specification'. Defining what a radically-altered car actually is has always been a grey area, but according to the consultation document, any modifications to chassis or bodywork means it has been altered. In theory, suspension or brake tweaks, bubble arches or a cage could tip you over the edge.
We need to make sure this doesn't happen if we want to keep enjoying our modified classic Fords.

(note: all typos and spelling errors are mine!).

You can find the consultation document here (http://www.dvla.gov.uk/public/consult/summary_inspection_procedures.htm#2).

The definition of a radically-altered car is quite loose and therefore could encompass modern modified cars, road legal competition cars or classics as above.

Classic Ford have printed a letter for reader to send to DVLA registering their concerns.

18-11-2005, 05:28 PM
FFS! What is with this government?

First kill off the British car industry...
Next kill off the marine industry...
Next kill off the modified car market...
Hmm.... what shall we kill off next?

And while I'm ranting... Lets bring in more illegal immigrants and make british people pay for them!!

Oh and last but not least lets kill education, the health service and for the fun of it we'll even make you pay more taxes because the country is failing!!

18-11-2005, 06:59 PM
:angry1: :eek: :angry1: :angry: :angry1: :eek: :angry1:

Oh great.

This all sounds a bit 'European' to me. In Germany and Austria every after market product needs TUV approval, which is expensive to get. We have it on some of our products, but it would be almost impossible to get it on eveything.
In Italy, after market springs are not alowed at all. I'm sure Alex will enlighten us on what is allowed currently in Spain.

Luckily for us, the vast majority of our business is motorsport related, but if this ridiculous recommendation goes ahead, it will be curtains for very many companies who rely on the modified road car sector.

18-11-2005, 08:06 PM
Nanny state stikes again. Lets hope it prooves too much of a hot potato and gets dropped quickly

blue harbour
18-11-2005, 08:13 PM
I can't see this ever getting hold or taking place!- the moddified car scene (classic or new!) is simply too huge to go down as easily as this!

I mean imagine if ALL modification's to any road car were banned!, you tellin me then that if i went out and purchased say a stainless steel exhaust for my car because it will last a hell of a lot longer than any mild steel system- that my car would then become illegal!-(which btw i already have!)

And imagine the massive detrimental effect this would have to businesses too!- company's such motobuild/sprintex/janspeed etc would be wiped out!

Would this also mean that manufacturers would be stuffed too!???- what i mean is surely if moddified car's were banned alltogether- then the tunning arms of all car manufacurers would become illegal too!- brabus,schnitzer,bmw's "M" badge would dissapear!- surely even MG would have to be classed as illegal too then- cos in there recent trends what have they done!?- that's right, introduced the "Z" range of mg's- meaning that car's like the zr/zs/zt would be classed as illegal too, because they are a "modification!" of the original design are'nt they!

All i'll say is- if some bullsh*t law or document comes to fruition- then i'll be getting locked up- cos there's no-way on earth that im removing any of my mods- just to meet up with new law's!!!!!!:angry:

18-11-2005, 08:23 PM
YEEEEEEEHAAAAH,,go harbs,go harbs,go harbs,,maaaaan yo one scary mudder.:D

blue harbour
18-11-2005, 08:30 PM
Ok breeny- you laugh if ya want!- but just sit back n imagine for a minute if this DID happen!!!!!!

You'd be right in the scheizer!- you'd have to replace the oe cams,take off the xpower springs, remove the chip- the zorst etc etc!- imagine how much money you'd be chuckin away if you had to have a 100% standard car JUST to be legal!:shock:

Well that'd be me,you and quite a few other's too!:D

I reckon we oughtta start up a group to support anyone who has a modified motor if there's any chance of this happening!!

18-11-2005, 08:52 PM
I'm popping into work tomorrow, I'll pick up the copy of Classic Ford and write a letter template for people to use should they wish to send it to the DVLA. I will be from a business perspective, because as Blue Harbour says the impact on companies who supply aftermarket modifications, and especially classic car parts could be huge. I do wonder if Beverley is right and this might be a step to introducing a TUV like system over here. We (Leda) have never applied for TUV because the cost is huge, you would need a seperate TUV approval for every type of kit you supply, for every type of car and application (so oil suspension for a ZR would be one, for a Lotus Elise another, TVR Chimera another, then a gas kit for a ZR another etc etc).

It was a surprise to me that despite being in industry associations the first I heard about this was in Classic Ford after the consultation period had finished. Lesson learned here to keep in touch with what is happening at DVLA!

In the consultation document it mentions having to inform the DVLA if you have a 'radically altered vehicle' but the term is a bit of a grey area but I do wonder how many of us should have told the DVLA already!


18-11-2005, 10:03 PM
Luckily for us, the vast majority of our business is motorsport related,

That'll be next! Unless of course Bernie stumps up a few more party funds!

18-11-2005, 10:25 PM
Luckily for us, the vast majority of our business is motorsport related, but if this ridiculous recommendation goes ahead, it will be curtains for very many companies who rely on the modified road car sector.

Of course, if I read this right, this potential legislation could apply to ALL motorsport competition cars that also have to be road legal.

19-11-2005, 11:30 AM
I think the "european harmonization" will catch you now :D

For me this draft looks like that they want to copy the german car registration law for the Uk.

Let me explain how modifications, modifier companys etc is handled in Germany:

If you want to modifiy your car with aftermarked products, these products must have an ABE = allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis = general permission for using or at least a TÜV expertise which allows you, to use the modifying-part at your car.

The ABE must be made or executed by the manufacturer of this part and it is f*cking expensive. So most of the parts don´t have this ABE.
The Tüv expertise is the duty of the car owner. He goes to the Tüv and they make a whole MOT evaluation inclusive assessment whether the modifying part is dangerous or not.

Car Manufacturer are not affected from this. For example: A MG is a modified Rover ;) But in Germany MG is a manufacturer, so MG´s are legal ;)
Or BMW M cars... BMW is a manufacturer and the M-company ist also a manufacturer... so the M cars are legal.
Or Brabus, Schnitzer.... all these companys are registrated as manufacturer in Germany - so these cars are legal.
But it is not as easy as it seems ;) All manufacturers have to get such an (mentioned above) ABE for their cars before they get legal.
Thats the way the german Tüv earns its money...

For classic cars it is more complicated:

If you have a classic car in Germany... in Germany a classic car is a car which is at least 30 years old. Younger cars are treated by the Green Party as "stinking hellmachines" and you have to pay taxes... :yikes:
With a 30 years old car you can get a historic number plate. The sign of this number plate is a "H" at the end of letter-number combination. And so you only pay a standart tax.
To get this "H-plate" you have to go where? Yes! exactly! to the TÜV - they want to earn money... ;)
The Tüv looks at your car and evaluates if your car is worthy to get the "H-plate". This includes: original condition, and (if modified) only contemporary modifications = modifications which could have been done in the time when the car was produced.
This evaluation is a subjective evaluation. So the Tüv-guy is god and can tell you any time that your car is **** ;) and if he does so you also have to pay the full price for the evaluation ;)

The advantage of driving a british car in Germany is: the Tüv guys do not know much about the cars... so for example a Mini with a RC40 exhaust (a RC40 exhaust has no TÜV and no ABE!!) would never fail in the Tüv evaluation because the Tüv guy think, that it is a standart exhaust.

oh... I almost forgot: welcome to the european union...the reason for our downfall and rise up of China and India!!

20-11-2005, 08:21 PM
It sounds like they will be enforcing what legislation already exists as when my mate was building his kit car, he had to prove how much of the car was 'original' to the donor car before he was allowed to keep the donors registration. Each part of the car carries a points value and dependant on what is changed/removed the points are totted up. This hasn't really been enforced but if it is the sh*t will hit the fan for many, many people. I would say the manufacturers are pressing some silver into the DVLA's palms to get this through, as are the EU (allegedly).

blue harbour
20-11-2005, 08:29 PM
What a totally sh*t drivel laden world we live in these day's!:sad1: :sad1:

It's ****!!!!!!

We'll all end up driving the same coffins to work n back- and enjoyable motoring will soon be a thing of the past!!!!!!!!:sad1:

20-11-2005, 08:34 PM
Eh Harbs......don't hold back mate!:happy1:

blue harbour
20-11-2005, 09:03 PM
It's true though ain't it!

Soon all car's will be limited to exact speeds in ALL area's

You won't be able to mod em in any way!

And we'll probably be only able to choose between 3 manufacturers!

24-11-2005, 08:08 AM
So will Leda go into the trailer/transport business to help all those non-road legal classic and track car owners get to their local race-track?

Undoubtedly, the business will evolve, one thing the EU does not appreciate is the petrol in our veins and the fact that nothing will stop us getting our fix! I say let's all emigrate to Oz - at least they still appreciate classic cars and muscle cars!

24-11-2005, 12:19 PM
So will Leda go into the trailer/transport business to help all those non-road legal classic and track car owners get to their local race-track?

Funnily enough, we have done a few 'special' trailors before :thumbs2:

King Minger
03-03-2006, 12:06 AM
sorry for the holy thread revival but,
does anyone know how this is getting on? the outcome of this could seriously hamper a little plan I have hatched.....
as i imagine there would be some significant changes that need to be made to make this work.
apparently even minor modification to the original chassis (e.g. strengthening or alternative engine mounts - conjecture on another forum) would reqire an SVA...


03-03-2006, 05:41 PM
According to the last (not present one) copy of Practical Performance Car, they had been trying to get an answer from the DVLA and all they got was gobbledegook.
So, one reader went to Dr Steven Ladyman (Transport Minister)'s friday surgery and nailed him down about it and got the reply that the new proceedures will not be any more strict than they were before and they so they shouldn't have any effect on car modifiers. But, of course, that isn't in writing yet.......