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MartinW
09-12-2007, 03:29 PM
BMW has decided that the new Mini sports utility vehicle expected to be launched in 2010 will be built outside the UK - the first time Mini production has gone overseas.

As predicted last week, with production at Mini's Oxford plant heading towards capacity as demand for standard, convertible and clubman models continues to increase, BMW has decided to outsource development and production of the SUV to Austria-based Magna Steyr. (Telegraph)
D A T E : Friday, December 07, 2007



www.autowired.co.uk (http://www.autowired.co.uk)

Tootall
09-12-2007, 09:38 PM
Cowley has already hit its annual output of 260k and the local council will not let them build any more indeed Hams Hall has already shipped out a load of engines to Austria for its first batch of Clubmans.
It has been said they (B#W) have said off the record it was a misguided action to have sold off Longbridge.

Rally Matt
10-12-2007, 11:17 AM
I think BMW are hoping that Steyer are a stop gap to allow the project to continue unimpeeded by capacity issues at Cowley.

I have heard a suggestion that BMW are hoping to increase capacity at Cowley (I know they like to call it BMW Oxford but thats another town!) There has been quite a bit of re-modelling going on and there is the potential for new/rebuilding on large parts of the site.

Despite the large number of looney greens and barking mad university twits involved in local politics, I think BMW has more than a good relationship with the local council/county council and Govt and so could get this through if thats what they really want to in the future.

There are still strong rumblings about another product emerging from the gates at Cowley with another famous English brand on the bonnet!

I can see BMW are regretting letting Longbridge go, TBH they would have been better to endure some more pain with Rover but embarked on many of the cust cutting schemes managers at MGR implemented, not spec cutting on cars but things like bringing bumper and seat assembly back in house, getting better deals from suppliers etc as well as expanding the range for almost nothing., like P4 did with MG saloons.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

At least we still have a profitable and large employer making cars in the UK with high local content. Even if it isn't really a proper Mini :thumbs1:

MartinW
10-12-2007, 11:24 AM
Ok, if BMW regretted letting go of Rover, surely they had time by 2005 to instoigate a re-take plan? Afterall, they were owed a lot of money based on the loan provided, they must have seen the success of the MG range (albeit with the poor publicity of the P4) and presumably they could have been seen as heroes by the British public and the rest of the world's MG fan base if they had rescued it.

Rally Matt
10-12-2007, 12:16 PM
By then there was little worth buying back!

Remember PVH had mortaged everything to the hilt,

Longbridge was sold off to St Modwen and XPart had been sold to Cat Logistsics, the main asset and the money makers had gone.

Plus BMW had already sunk £millions into MGR via a soft loan that they knew they were never going to see again, it was effectively to cover the redunancies from the closure of Rover.

It would have only been worth keeping rather than selling, not buying back from BMW's point of view.

The best plan would have been for BMW to keep Rover, and locate everything at Longbridge, MINI was always planned to be built at Longbridge and much of Northworks? (I think) had been prepared. If they had moved R75 to Longbridge and then closed Cowley as a car plant and developed it as a retail/office/business park like the rest of the old Morris/Pressed Steel plant at Cowley. After BAe, Rover Cowley was tiny, covering only about a tenth what it used to be, now you know where BAe Systems money comes from!

That income could have been used to re-develop Longbridge and make it more efficient, it covered a massive area compared to its output although many parts inside like the lines were quite modern.

From BMW's books point of view, the profits from the sale of Land Rover to Ford covered all the losses incurred at Rover and the development cost of MINI, so effectively BMW would have had Rover and Mini, Longbridge for free! and saving the loan to PVH.

But that was never the plan, ever.

Dave Harrison
11-12-2007, 10:26 PM
local politics, I think BMW has more than a good relationship with the local council/county council



Damn well ought too seeing the number of cars supplied, inc. the Mayor of Oxford's revolting 7 Series or whatever he has now.



There are still strong rumblings about another product emerging from the gates at Cowley with another famous English brand on the bonnet!


AEC?




Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

Not as wonderful as killing a competitor.




At least we still have a profitable and large employer making cars in the UK with high local content. Even if it isn't really a proper Mini :thumbs1:

Define 'High local content', anyone.

Puppetland
11-12-2007, 11:51 PM
Define 'High local content', anyone.

Er, British workers for starters?


Not as wonderful as killing a competitor.

Wishfull thinking.

Puppetland
11-12-2007, 11:55 PM
The best plan would have been for BMW to keep Rover

The Rover brand was effectively dead in the water in 2000 - BMW had to pay to give it away!

MartinW
12-12-2007, 08:45 PM
The Rover brand was effectively dead in the water in 2000 - BMW had to pay to give it away!

That's a subjective point, and if it was dead, then who was to blame given the stewardship since 1994.



Originally Posted by Dave Harrison http://forum.brit-cars.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.brit-cars.com/showthread.php?p=72429#post72429)
Define 'High local content', anyone.


In manufacturing it's usually based on weight/mass. For example, Leyland South Africa had to work to 85% local content by mass. Obviously things like tyres are easy enough, but when weight based, you go for the heaviest first, so engines, transmissions, bodyshells, glass, sub-frames, axles etc were all cast, or stamped or produced in SA leaving only very light weight stuff like specialist parts (carbs, switches etc) to be imported which make up usually a low percentage.

The average foreigner's view of the British workforce is not positive!

Puppetland
13-12-2007, 12:09 AM
The average foreigner's view of the British workforce is not positive!

Doesn't appear to be hurting MINIs global sales.

MartinW
13-12-2007, 08:51 AM
Doesn't appear to be hurting MINIs global sales.

Maybe because BMW is smart enough to promote "Britishness" and not Made in Britain. The average buyer seems to think MINI is a BMW and therefore, like all BMWs, obviously made in Germany! 99% of BMW 3 Series owners believe there car is made in Germany.
:p

Puppetland
17-12-2007, 06:14 PM
99% of BMW 3 Series owners believe there car is made in Germany.

With All BMW plants running at almost 100% capacity, it would appear the country of origin is irrelevant.

A good product with a strong image will always sell. :xmthumbsu

MGTurbo#261
17-12-2007, 08:39 PM
With All BMW plants running at almost 100% capacity, it would appear the country of origin is irrelevant.

A good product with a strong image will always sell. :xmthumbsu

They make some great cars, but with the BMW badge, if they stuck it on a Turd it would sell. Look at the 1 Series :p ..
My brother thinks it great he has upgraded his Mondeo Ghia to the most basic crappy 3 series they make, but sadly they think the neighbours are impressed by the badge .. The mondeo he got rid of was 10 times better, but the image was wrong .. :confused2

Puppetland
17-12-2007, 11:33 PM
A 135i and 123D are very capable RWD cars. Would leave any ZT 190 for dead - without the over stated looks.

Excel620
17-12-2007, 11:53 PM
Sorry to see that MINI production is going overseas, even a small part of it.

I understand many RHD cooking spec 3 series are supplied from South Africa. Same certainly applied to the MkIV Golf. Not sure about the MkV Golf

The Rover brand still has value, Ford recently bought it, for a nominal sum in automotive terms, and looks likely to sell it with Jag and LR to Tata. The brand could make a comeback if carefully managed. The Skoda example is the one to look at. VW have done a great (superb?) job of turning that around.

MartinW
18-12-2007, 09:27 AM
Even the 1 Series looks better than this schizophrenic pile of brown smelly stuff! This really proves the point that anyone will buy anything given the right marketing which proves that a vast number of the world's population need a few more grey cells for Christmas! :xmthumbsu

MGTurbo#261
18-12-2007, 02:55 PM
A 135i and 123D are very capable RWD cars. Would leave any ZT 190 for dead - without the over stated looks.

You really are a complete tool.. What has a 135i and 123D 1 Series and a ZT190 got to do with anything .. The 1 series is an over hyped pile of turd, that people buy to say they have a BMW.. Why does the 1 series offer over anything in the same class from the other manufacturers .. Focus, Astra etc etc.. Your just the sort of brain dead sheep that would buy one though :xm3:

Puppetland
18-12-2007, 05:25 PM
[QUOTE=MGTurbo#261;72613]The 1 series is an over hyped pile of turd/QUOTE]

But the buying public think it is still more desirable than an MG. :xmlol:

Come to think of it a 120D would leave a ZT190!

Puppetland
18-12-2007, 06:05 PM
Even the 1 Series looks better than this schizophrenic pile of brown smelly stuff!

But it will probably still sell - and manufacturers can only exist if their products sell. If you don't get it right you end up like MGR.

You can't help but admire the way BMW are pressing all the right buttons, from the way they have handled the MINI brand upwards.

Ever been in to a BMW/MINI showroom recently? They are positively bustling with customers.

MGTurbo#261
18-12-2007, 06:35 PM
But it will probably still sell - and manufacturers can only exist if their products sell. If you don't get it right you end up like MGR.

You can't help but admire the way BMW are pressing all the right buttons, from the way they have handled the MINI brand upwards.

Ever been in to a BMW/MINI showroom recently? They are positively bustling with customers.

Sounds like we would have to beat you off with a stick if we went in a BMW/Mini showroom as you would be humping all the cars on display. Is the drivel you spout sponsered by BMW ?

The Express Valeter
18-12-2007, 06:58 PM
A 135i and 123D are very capable RWD cars. Would leave any ZT 190 for dead - without the over stated looks.

Possibly they would but if i wanted to drive a bread van I would buy a LDV!
I spoke to a customer some time back who has German cars. His was a Mercedes & his wife wanted & baught a 1 Series - His oppinion of that car was un-printable on here!!

MartinW
18-12-2007, 07:47 PM
Ever been in to a BMW/MINI showroom recently? They are positively bustling with customers.

Yes, and surprising really since the staff have a very arrogant attitude and that put me off!

Dave Harrison
19-12-2007, 08:33 PM
But it will probably still sell - and manufacturers can only exist if their products sell. If you don't get it right you end up like MGR.

You can't help but admire the way BMW are pressing all the right buttons, from the way they have handled the MINI brand upwards.

Ever been in to a BMW/MINI showroom recently? They are positively bustling with customers.


Well, why don't you just fack off and buy one, and leave us all in peace?

Dave Harrison
19-12-2007, 08:37 PM
Sounds like we would have to beat you off with a stick if we went in a BMW/Mini showroom as you would be humping all the cars on display. Is the drivel you spout sponsered by BMW ?

As I said before, he is just a BAITER. And a MASTER at it.